A Conversation with an INC Member: Holy Trinity

Facebook has been one of the largest social networks spreading on the internet. On Facebook can be found people, people you dont know, pages, groups, and anything that has something to deal with socializing. Since I, an apologist, search for Religious Organizations on the world of Facebook, i found an interesting group which can help me gain more knowledge about studying Catholic Apologetics.

The title explains it all.. Yes, that "interesting group" i was referring to was the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" (Church Of Christ; founded by Manalo; i dont know what he's first name is, and yeah, i dont mind to know it either lol) Some refer it to as "Iglesia Ni Manalo" (Church of Manalo) for some reasons..

On the "Iglesia ni Cristo" Group Page can be found pictures, links, members, infos, and most importantly, discussions. And guess what, on that Group Page the members were not only INC's but also Catholics... Catholics who i knew.. On the Discussion Tab, i saw a lot of topics from the INC members like, "Ang Tunay na Dios ay IISA, at ito ang Ama. (The True God is ONE, and it is the Father)", "si MAMA MARY DIN ba MEDIATOR DIN??! (Mama Mary is also a Mediator?)", "PURGATORYO?!. . (Purgatory?)", and "NASAN ang TRINITY?? (Where is the Trinity)"? .. On the other hand, my Catholic Friends also started discussions there like "NASAA ANG FELIX MANALO SA BIBLIA? (Where in the Bible is Felix Manalo?)", "ANG IGLSIA NA TATAG NI JESUS --NATAYO 33 AD -ANG IGLSIA NA HINDI TATAG NI KRISTO -1914 NATATAG (God created His Church on 33AD and not on 1914 [1914 was the date when "Iglesia Ni Cristo founded by Manalo" Church was created])", and "BIBLICAL BA ANG ARAL NG IGLSIA NI MANALO NA NATALIKOD ANG IGLSIA NA TINATAG NI JESUS? (Are the teachings of the "Church of Manalo" Biblical?)".. There are like 300 Discussions on that Page by Catholics and INC's.. And i said to myself, "Why is it even called a Discussion? Why not a debate?" This was because when I read it one by one, oh gahh! the way they speak to each other was so shocking.. They used words like "tanga", "sira ulo", "oi pagano", "IKAW PURO YABANG -HANGIN -KABAG LANG AT UTOT MO ANG GUMAGANA DITO", "bobo!", etc.... And yes i admit, it was very Immature not only for the INC's, but also for the Catholics, for I, myself, is a Catholic.


All of the topics were very much answered, except for one - The Holy Trinity. It was so interesting, like i said, i was trying to gain more knowledge, so, with respect and good manners, i joined the debate, i mean (which also end up to that), discussion :-) Here's the thread..


(edited and deleted some features)

LEGEND: INC- represents the person I was having a conversation with; C- represents Me :)

C: may i join this conversation?

INC: yes.

C: can i first ask a question? why dont you believe in the Holy Trinity?

INC:
John 20:17 ~ Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'

* its simple. because there is only ONE God, the God of Jacob, Abraham and Jesus.

C: So you dont believe the Jesus is God? Meaning to say that Jehovah, God the Father, is the Only God?

INC: Yes.. not including Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

C: ah i see. is it okay if i explain the Holy Trinity?

INC: as long as you want sister.

C:

thank you brother ^_^



SOURCE: http://www.ctl-apologetics.blogspot.com [my blogsite]


Im a Catholic anyway.. And we believe in the Holy Trinity..


What is the Trinity?

Trinity (Santatlo; Trinitaryo in Tagalog) - this is the word used to explain the great mystery about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. (KnowTheTruth by Fr. Paul Kaiparambadan)


WIKIPEDIA - The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. The doctrine states that God is the Triune God, existing as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, but one being.


in short, its like..


God the Father

God the Son                =                 1 God

God the Holy Spirit



          3                     =                      1



          1                     =                      1



get it?


Non-believers of the Trinity say that the doctrine of "Trinity" is not true for it is not written in the Bible... (Q: the word "Bible" is not written in the Bible... so why do we still believe on it?)


In the Old Testament, God introduced Himself not as a "person" but "persons". In the Greek Bible, the word "God" is translated NOT to "El" which is used for one person but to "Elohim" which is used for many personna..


this is one of the verses that you use to say that there is only one God and it is the Father:



Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

* as you can see, the verse above tries to imply that the Lord is one... This is also one of the verses that Anti Catholics use to attack the doctrine of the Trinity.

In the Hebrew Bible, the word "ONE" in Deuteronomy 6:4 is translated to "ECHAD" which thought is like a corporation with many people... (or a choir with many singers; a school with many students; A HEAD WITH MANY PERSONS)

your turn :)


INC:

ok ok. . i'll quote a few verse only okay. . because supposedly you gave me one verse which is Deu. 6:4 and the rest you will rely on the Creeds that support the Trinity, and those creeds where only created by Bishops and not by God. In other words, the Holy Trinity is a "man made dogma"... is it okay if we use the basis of the Bible?
C:
 
The Bishops did not created the belief of the Holy Trinity. Yes we do have creeds and prayers that mention the Holy Trinity like the Nicene's Creed but this doesnt mean that this is man made. The Bible will tell, my brother :) yes lets rely on the Bible
 
INC:
 
okay if we are on the Biblical basis, Apostle Paul will contradict your response.


1 Cor. 8:5-6: “For even there are SO-CALLED GODS, whether in heaven or on earth…yet for us, there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER…”

isnt it clear? although daw " there are SO-CALLED GODS". . ."there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER". . we can see here that there is no Trinity.

C:

Ah i see.. Okay i will complete the verse that you used.


1 Corinthians 8:5-6 ~ For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

* the word "so-called gods" there is not Jesus and the Holy Spirit. If you will read the full chapter (1 Corinthians 8), the main topic is about idols (diyosdiyosan).. It is imposible that Jesus will be an idol for He is God's son.

Matthew 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit..

* If God the Father is only the God, why did Matthew said this verse? "baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.."

* another one, if there is no trinity, why did on Matthew 28:19 say "name" even though his sentence was plural.. As Catholics believe, there is one God, but with 3 personnas.


INC:

Havent you notice the sentence? its so simple. "baptize them in the name".. not because they 3 are Gods. simple as ABC


You Said "another one, if there is no trinity, why did on Matthew 28:19 say "name" even though his sentence was plural.. As Catholics believe, there is one God, but with 3 personnas."

my reply: like what i said, it is not as a condition as a God, but as a name only..

Acts 1:8 say that the spirit is only the power of God and not God. see also "Efeso 3:16-17" and "Juan 14:26"


C: [i dont know what to answer for honestly, i did not get his point. so, i copy-pasted my blogpost about Jesus is God..]


http://ctl-apologetics.blogspot.com/2010/03/jesus-is-god.html


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know what he replied? ;-D
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INC: wait sister are you serious about this debate? im really tired of answering this over and over again..

[this has been the end of the discussion]



Once again, Catholicism scored. :) Hope this helps..

NOTE: There are a lot of typing errors on this one. Please consider. The reason why i wrote this is to ANSWER QUESTIONS and nothing ELSE. God bless ~