A CONVERSATION.
BROTHER 1: Yes! the truth is in the Catholic Church.It is the TRUE Church established by the Lord Jesus Christ 2000 years ago..
SISTER 1: I won't argue with you Brother 1 if you say that The Roman Catholic is the true Church that God built which started from the first church which is in Jerusalem.. The Roman Catholic Church became official during the reign of Emperor Constantine which was in 313AD. Anyway, lets not argue with history... If you claim that Catholic Church is the Chruch being described in Jerusalem then fine. but if it's really the Catholic Church, why Did God said in the Book of Revelation that He will change the church into a new one? New Jerusalem? Was there something WRONG OR NOT RIGHT OR BAD about the First Church for Him to change it?
(woah! This is the time where I popped in..)
ME: Can i ask for the verse in Revelation which states that God will change the church into a new one?
SISTER 1: Revelation 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.And He said, Write, for these words are faithful and true.
Revelation 21:2 And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
ME:
For my opinion, I dont think this verse is taken literally.. I dont think that God would replace something really valuable for Him. Lets take a "son/daughter" as an example. Lets describe this child with negative traits --> disobeys, hates, has bad manners, etc. This child came from your womb, (the Church came from Jesus) and a child is to be loved. Would you dare to replace this child because of His negative traits? ofcourse not! (LETS CONNECT WHAT YOU SAID-->Was there something WRONG OR NOT RIGHT OR BAD about the First Church for Him to change it?)
All God's works are perferct (Deuteronomy 32:4) I dont think that God would establish something he created then replace it BECAUSE IT IS WRONG or IT HAS SOMETHING WRONG ON IT. (I will repeat, all God's works are perfect) . For my opinon, if God would replace or change something he created, this is not because IT IS WRONG OR BECAUSE IT HAS SOMETHING WRONG ON IT, but because he wanted to make His creation a much better one (a church into a much better church; good-better-best)
Wednesday, December 22, 2010
Wednesday, December 8, 2010
The RH Bill (English Version)
This speech was made by one of the chosen maidens in the Kingdom of God - Celine Laroza, a very young Princess who for her passion and love for the Church, was able to advocate to counter-act the Reproductive Health Bill. I really admire her for this, even at her age, she was able to interpolate with current events while faithfully holding the Catholic Faith. It was originally written in Filipino and rendered into English by yours truly.
"Be Fruitful and Multiply" These were the words handed over to us by God when He created the world and humankind. Indeed we were able to fulfill His words. Just observe our country nowadays full of people everywhere to the extent that some say to be "over populated". What do God really wanted to imply when he uttered those words? is it a task? a commandment ? or a GIFT? "Be fruitful and multiply".
As the new President - Mr. Noynoy Aquino was elected, hope and light were seen by many people to restore into life our dead nation.
Through President Noynoy Aquino and his performances, they believe that he could able to lift up the Philippines. one of which is by passing House Bill # 5043, Reproductive Health and Population Development Act of 2008, popularly known as the RH Bill. What is it then? why many people are in favor with it? while some disagree with its passage? the said Bill is still open for debate if it could be promulgated by the Government as a law. It thereby authorized media to endorsed the use of modern artificial birth control. How this issue rapidly gets bigger whereas other products such as shampoo, soap, foods and clothing being advertised by the mass media were not that controversial? Here comes the insights of the Church. The Catholic Church upholds the teaching that God created our bodies to be used for procreation and not just for recreation. It is the temple of God, that if ever the bill becomes a law, many would profane it.
In these times, many things in the world were advanced or modernized and it includes the mindset of human beings.Sometimes, due to poverty and so much problems encountered, people cannot refrain from doing what seems to be wrong. This is the same point the Government would like to emphasize in advocating RH Bill. Young people, who at their juvenile age were able to conceive a child, thus even we tell them it is a sin, nothing would be changed at all. Another aspect are the cases of unwanted pregnancies by young women committed from being harassed.
If i'll leave a question for you, are you in favor to officially pass the RH Bill that might help us control the population ant poverty? or prefer to believe that God remains sovereign that we ought not to disobey?
As a conclusion, the word "responsibility" would still give us the proper answer. Let us try not to be dependent (on any secular ideologies). We have God-given minds and Government-given choices to decide for ourselves.
- Celine Laroza;
"Be Fruitful and Multiply" These were the words handed over to us by God when He created the world and humankind. Indeed we were able to fulfill His words. Just observe our country nowadays full of people everywhere to the extent that some say to be "over populated". What do God really wanted to imply when he uttered those words? is it a task? a commandment ? or a GIFT? "Be fruitful and multiply".
As the new President - Mr. Noynoy Aquino was elected, hope and light were seen by many people to restore into life our dead nation.
Through President Noynoy Aquino and his performances, they believe that he could able to lift up the Philippines. one of which is by passing House Bill # 5043, Reproductive Health and Population Development Act of 2008, popularly known as the RH Bill. What is it then? why many people are in favor with it? while some disagree with its passage? the said Bill is still open for debate if it could be promulgated by the Government as a law. It thereby authorized media to endorsed the use of modern artificial birth control. How this issue rapidly gets bigger whereas other products such as shampoo, soap, foods and clothing being advertised by the mass media were not that controversial? Here comes the insights of the Church. The Catholic Church upholds the teaching that God created our bodies to be used for procreation and not just for recreation. It is the temple of God, that if ever the bill becomes a law, many would profane it.
In these times, many things in the world were advanced or modernized and it includes the mindset of human beings.Sometimes, due to poverty and so much problems encountered, people cannot refrain from doing what seems to be wrong. This is the same point the Government would like to emphasize in advocating RH Bill. Young people, who at their juvenile age were able to conceive a child, thus even we tell them it is a sin, nothing would be changed at all. Another aspect are the cases of unwanted pregnancies by young women committed from being harassed.
If i'll leave a question for you, are you in favor to officially pass the RH Bill that might help us control the population ant poverty? or prefer to believe that God remains sovereign that we ought not to disobey?
As a conclusion, the word "responsibility" would still give us the proper answer. Let us try not to be dependent (on any secular ideologies). We have God-given minds and Government-given choices to decide for ourselves.
- Celine Laroza;
"Be Fruitful and Multiply" By: Celine Laroza (translated by Adrian Tambuyat, O.P.)
The RH Bill (Filipino Version)
“Humayo kayo’t magpakarami.” Ito ang mga salitang binitawan ng Diyos nang nilikha Niya ang mundo at ang tao. Kung sa tutuusin, tunay nga nating nagampanan ito. Tignan mo nga naman ang ating bansa ngayon na punong puno na ng tao at sinasabi pa nilang “overpopulated” na. Ano nga ba ang ibigsabihin ng Diyos nang sinabi niya ang mga salitang iyan? Ito ba ay isang trabaho, kautusan, o regalo? “Humayo kayo’t magpakarami.”
Nang nahalal bilang bagong presidente si Ginoong Noynoy Aquino, maraming tao ang muling nakakita ng pag-asa at liwanag upang mabuhay ang bansa nating “namatay.” Naniniwala silang sa pamamagitan ni President Noynoy Aquino at sa mga ipapatupad niyang gawain ay muling babangon ang Pilipinas. Isa sa mga ito ay ang pagiging aktibo ng House Bill # 5043, Reproductive Health and Population Development Act of 2008, o mas kilala sa tawag na RH Bill. Ano nga ba ang RH Bill? Bakit maraming tao ang sumasang-ayon dito? Bakit marami rin ang hindi? Ang RH Bill ay isang kautusang pinag-iisipan pang ipatupad sa pamahalaan. Sinasaad dito ang awtoridad ng media upang ipatalastas sa publiko ang pag-gamit ng contraceptives at birth controllers. Ngunit bakit lumaki ng husto ang issue tungkol dito? Bakit pag shampoo, sabon, pagkain, o damit ang inilalabas ng media sa publiko ay hindi naman lumalaki ang usapan? Dito pumapasok ang konsepto ng Simbahan. Naniniwala ang Simbahan na ginawa ng Diyos ang katawan ng tao para sa pagpaparami at hindi para sa sarap. Naniniwala rin sila na ang katawan ng tao ang siyang templo ng Diyos. Kung saka-sakaling ipatupad ang RH Bill, marami ang gagamit nito at patuloy lang nilang babastusin ang templo ng Diyos.
Sa panahon ngayon, napakamodernisado na ng halos lahat sa mundo. Kasama na rito ang utak at pagiisip ng isang tao. Minsan, sa sobrang kahirapan at dami ng problema, hindi naiiwasan ng tao na gumawa ng isang bagay na hindi maganda. At ito ang punto na gustong ipalabas ng gobyerno sa pagiging aktibo ng RH Bill. Maraming kabataan ang nabubuntis ngayon, at kahit sabihin nating “Kasalanan na nila iyon”, ay wala pa ring magbabago. Isa pa ay ang mga kababaihang nabubuntis na hindi naman nila ginusto tulad ng mga kadahilanang napagsamantalahan at naharas.
Kung kayo ang tatanungin ko, payag ba kayo sa pagpapatupad ng RH bill na siyang tutulong satin na umurong ang dami ng populasyon at gayun na din sa kahirapan, o hindi dahil naniniwala kayong Diyos pa rin ang masusunod at hindi natin siya nararapat na bastusin?
Sa dulo ng usapan, ang salitang “responsibilidad” pa rin ang siyang magbibigay ng kasagutan satin. Huwag tayong umasa sa kanila. Mayroon tayong utak na bigay satin ng Diyos at karapatan na bigay ng pamahalaan upang madesisyon sa ating mga sarili.
- Celine Laroza
Nang nahalal bilang bagong presidente si Ginoong Noynoy Aquino, maraming tao ang muling nakakita ng pag-asa at liwanag upang mabuhay ang bansa nating “namatay.” Naniniwala silang sa pamamagitan ni President Noynoy Aquino at sa mga ipapatupad niyang gawain ay muling babangon ang Pilipinas. Isa sa mga ito ay ang pagiging aktibo ng House Bill # 5043, Reproductive Health and Population Development Act of 2008, o mas kilala sa tawag na RH Bill. Ano nga ba ang RH Bill? Bakit maraming tao ang sumasang-ayon dito? Bakit marami rin ang hindi? Ang RH Bill ay isang kautusang pinag-iisipan pang ipatupad sa pamahalaan. Sinasaad dito ang awtoridad ng media upang ipatalastas sa publiko ang pag-gamit ng contraceptives at birth controllers. Ngunit bakit lumaki ng husto ang issue tungkol dito? Bakit pag shampoo, sabon, pagkain, o damit ang inilalabas ng media sa publiko ay hindi naman lumalaki ang usapan? Dito pumapasok ang konsepto ng Simbahan. Naniniwala ang Simbahan na ginawa ng Diyos ang katawan ng tao para sa pagpaparami at hindi para sa sarap. Naniniwala rin sila na ang katawan ng tao ang siyang templo ng Diyos. Kung saka-sakaling ipatupad ang RH Bill, marami ang gagamit nito at patuloy lang nilang babastusin ang templo ng Diyos.
Sa panahon ngayon, napakamodernisado na ng halos lahat sa mundo. Kasama na rito ang utak at pagiisip ng isang tao. Minsan, sa sobrang kahirapan at dami ng problema, hindi naiiwasan ng tao na gumawa ng isang bagay na hindi maganda. At ito ang punto na gustong ipalabas ng gobyerno sa pagiging aktibo ng RH Bill. Maraming kabataan ang nabubuntis ngayon, at kahit sabihin nating “Kasalanan na nila iyon”, ay wala pa ring magbabago. Isa pa ay ang mga kababaihang nabubuntis na hindi naman nila ginusto tulad ng mga kadahilanang napagsamantalahan at naharas.
Kung kayo ang tatanungin ko, payag ba kayo sa pagpapatupad ng RH bill na siyang tutulong satin na umurong ang dami ng populasyon at gayun na din sa kahirapan, o hindi dahil naniniwala kayong Diyos pa rin ang masusunod at hindi natin siya nararapat na bastusin?
Sa dulo ng usapan, ang salitang “responsibilidad” pa rin ang siyang magbibigay ng kasagutan satin. Huwag tayong umasa sa kanila. Mayroon tayong utak na bigay satin ng Diyos at karapatan na bigay ng pamahalaan upang madesisyon sa ating mga sarili.
- Celine Laroza
Sunday, August 29, 2010
"LAW OF SATAN: "NOT GETTING MARRIED..of Catholic Priests" -- Blasphemy!"
A friend of mine once asked me, "Have you heard of the law of Satan.." I said, "uhmm.." And he answered me, "they say one of the laws of satan is not getting married.." He's statement didn't caught me until he added, "look at our priests..." And thats when I saw the bulb on top of my head go "poof!" :)
Hey everybody:) Im back after a very very long time:) A lot of school work went on my way, and yeah its a major suckage;P Thanks to that friend of mine, I got back on my business here on blogger.com and I swear I'll never leave again :D
"LAW OF SATAN: "NOT GETTING MARRIED..of Catholic Priests" -- Blasphemy!"
* This is the title I wrote for this post, obviously, you know what it means..
Other sects say that among all the Christian religions we have, only Catholicism has leaders that does not get married... and for them, it is considered as the Law of Satan. Hearing this statement is really confusing.. I mean, how does this be a law of satan? Should I get married right now??
Priests are called not only to follow what Jesus said, but also to live the way Jesus lived. (Jesus remained unmarried)
Matthew 19:12
"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."
Do Priests Get Married? NO. WHY??
- Simple. For the sake of the kingdom of heaven. (according to Mt.19:12)
1 Corinthians 7:32
But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;
Lets use our common sense now :) If not getting married is a law of satan, how come Jesus, Mary, and the Apostles remained unmarried? Are they telling us to follow the law of Satan?
*this is not the full discussion for the topic. the next blog(part2) for "LAW OF SATAN: "NOT GETTING MARRIED..of Catholic Priests" -- Blasphemy!" will come soon.
Hope this helped you :) Have a great day!
Hey everybody:) Im back after a very very long time:) A lot of school work went on my way, and yeah its a major suckage;P Thanks to that friend of mine, I got back on my business here on blogger.com and I swear I'll never leave again :D
"LAW OF SATAN: "NOT GETTING MARRIED..of Catholic Priests" -- Blasphemy!"
* This is the title I wrote for this post, obviously, you know what it means..
Other sects say that among all the Christian religions we have, only Catholicism has leaders that does not get married... and for them, it is considered as the Law of Satan. Hearing this statement is really confusing.. I mean, how does this be a law of satan? Should I get married right now??
Priests are called not only to follow what Jesus said, but also to live the way Jesus lived. (Jesus remained unmarried)
Matthew 19:12
"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."
Do Priests Get Married? NO. WHY??
- Simple. For the sake of the kingdom of heaven. (according to Mt.19:12)
1 Corinthians 7:32
But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;
Lets use our common sense now :) If not getting married is a law of satan, how come Jesus, Mary, and the Apostles remained unmarried? Are they telling us to follow the law of Satan?
*this is not the full discussion for the topic. the next blog(part2) for "LAW OF SATAN: "NOT GETTING MARRIED..of Catholic Priests" -- Blasphemy!" will come soon.
Hope this helped you :) Have a great day!
Sunday, May 23, 2010
A Blessed Pentecost To Everyone!
For all my subscribers, I wanna greet you a Happy and Blessed Pentecost! :)
And to all Anti-Catholics out there:
"Yeah, I totally agree.. Our Church has a lot explaining to do.. You didnt even mind listening to it. Us? False? Yeah right.. Know what's in reality? 46 years is not equal to 2000 years.. You're smarter than me, just like you stated, then go to the math.."
Come Holy Spirit and Fill our Hearts! oh wait, please fill their hearts too :) lol
Happy Birthday Mother Church, the Catholic Church!
Saturday, May 22, 2010
Wednesday, May 12, 2010
Numbers 21:14 [Question by PikaMan Thunderbolt]
Hello. I'm a Roman Catholic like you. You know me already, right? So my question is regarding the Book of Numbers. On Numbers 21:14 it says...
Hence it is said in the "Book of the Wars of the LORD": "Waheb in Supah and the wadies, - Numbers 21:14 [New American Bible]
Question no.1 is: What is the "Book of the Wars of the LORD"?
Question no. 2 is: Why we can't find the "Book of the Wars of the LORD" in the Holy Bible?
Question no. 3 is: What is the Wahed in Supah and the wadies?
Thanks for viewing and answering this question and may God bless us all. Shalom!
Respectfully yours,
PikaMan ThunderBolt ;)
My Reply:
Hello Brother Lorenzo, a.k.a, PikaMan Thunderbolt, thanks for sending me this question :)
Okay so you are concerned about what Numbers 21:14 is trying to say...
first, let us quote the verse "Numbers 21:14"
NASB version
Numbers 21:14
Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD,
"Waheb in Suphah,
And the wadis of the Arnon.
Question no.1 is: What is the "Book of the Wars of the LORD"?
Before we answer this question, i want you to read the book of Numbers chapter 21 verses 6 to 17 so we'd understand it more :)
[Numbers 21:6-17] NASB version
The LORD sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died. So the people came to Moses and said, "We have sinned, because we have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, that He may remove the serpents from us." And Moses interceded for the people. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. Now the sons of Israel moved out and camped in Oboth. They journeyed from Oboth and camped at Iyeabarim, in the wilderness which is opposite Moab, to the east. From there they set out and camped in Wadi Zered. From there they journeyed and camped on the other side of the Arnon, which is in the wilderness that comes out of the border of the Amorites, for the Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites. Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD, "Waheb in Suphah, And the wadis of the Arnon, And the slope of the wadis. That extends to the site of Ar, And leans to the border of Moab." From there they continued to Beer, that is the well where the LORD said to Moses, "Assemble the people, that I may give them water." Then Israel sang this song:"Spring up, O well! Sing to it!
ANSWER:
The Book of the Wars of the Lord is one of several non-canonical books referenced in the Bible which have now been completely lost. It is mentioned in Numbers 21:14–15, which reads: "From there they set out and camped on the other side of the Arnon, which is in the desert and bounding the Amorite territory. For Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites. That is why the Book of the Wars of the Lord says: '... Waheb in Suphah and the ravines of Arnon, and at the stream of the ravines that lead to the dwelling of Ar, which lies along the border of Moab.'"The Book of the Wars of the Lord is cited in the mediaeval Book of Jasher Chapter 90:48 as being a collaborative record written by Moses, Joshua, and the children of Israel. [wikipedia]
A work mentioned in a single passage of the Old Testament (Num. xxi. 14) in connection with the geographical position of Arnon. The title suggests that the book contained songs celebrating the victories of the Israelites led by Yhwh, and it seems, therefore, to have been similar to the Book of Jasher or possibly even identical with it, though there is no evidence to support the latter hypothesis. [http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=42&letter=W]
WHAT IS THE BOOK OF JASHER?
The Book of Jasher is the normal English name of a work known in the original Hebrew as Sefer haYashar. It is the best-known of several "Lost books of the Old Testament", books referenced in the Hebrew Bible of which no copies are known to exist. The original Hebrew translates as "Book of the Upright".
Question no. 2 is: Why we can't find the "Book of the Wars of the LORD" in the Holy Bible?
ANSWER: Well, I did not write the Bible so how can I answer this one lol :) Uhh, according to Wikipedia it is a "lost book".
Question no. 3 is: What is the Wahed in Supah and the wadies?
ANSWER: I think the "Wahed in Supah and the wadies" is the title of the Book of Wars of the Lord.
NASB version
Numbers 21:14
Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD,
"Waheb in Suphah,
And the wadis of the Arnon.
As you can see above it says that "Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD,
"Waheb in Suphah,"
The title suggests that the book contained songs celebrating the victories of the Israelites led by Yahweh =)
----------------------------------------------------
Ok honestly, i dont know how to answer your questions, Brother. Im an apologist, not a Bible Expert :) Anyway, you should do researches in able to find answers, or you can contact and talk to Theologists. Hope this helps, even a litle :) God bless you!
Hence it is said in the "Book of the Wars of the LORD": "Waheb in Supah and the wadies, - Numbers 21:14 [New American Bible]
Question no.1 is: What is the "Book of the Wars of the LORD"?
Question no. 2 is: Why we can't find the "Book of the Wars of the LORD" in the Holy Bible?
Question no. 3 is: What is the Wahed in Supah and the wadies?
Thanks for viewing and answering this question and may God bless us all. Shalom!
Respectfully yours,
PikaMan ThunderBolt ;)
My Reply:
Hello Brother Lorenzo, a.k.a, PikaMan Thunderbolt, thanks for sending me this question :)
Okay so you are concerned about what Numbers 21:14 is trying to say...
first, let us quote the verse "Numbers 21:14"
NASB version
Numbers 21:14
Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD,
"Waheb in Suphah,
And the wadis of the Arnon.
Question no.1 is: What is the "Book of the Wars of the LORD"?
Before we answer this question, i want you to read the book of Numbers chapter 21 verses 6 to 17 so we'd understand it more :)
[Numbers 21:6-17] NASB version
The LORD sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died. So the people came to Moses and said, "We have sinned, because we have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, that He may remove the serpents from us." And Moses interceded for the people. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. Now the sons of Israel moved out and camped in Oboth. They journeyed from Oboth and camped at Iyeabarim, in the wilderness which is opposite Moab, to the east. From there they set out and camped in Wadi Zered. From there they journeyed and camped on the other side of the Arnon, which is in the wilderness that comes out of the border of the Amorites, for the Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites. Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD, "Waheb in Suphah, And the wadis of the Arnon, And the slope of the wadis. That extends to the site of Ar, And leans to the border of Moab." From there they continued to Beer, that is the well where the LORD said to Moses, "Assemble the people, that I may give them water." Then Israel sang this song:"Spring up, O well! Sing to it!
ANSWER:
The Book of the Wars of the Lord is one of several non-canonical books referenced in the Bible which have now been completely lost. It is mentioned in Numbers 21:14–15, which reads: "From there they set out and camped on the other side of the Arnon, which is in the desert and bounding the Amorite territory. For Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites. That is why the Book of the Wars of the Lord says: '... Waheb in Suphah and the ravines of Arnon, and at the stream of the ravines that lead to the dwelling of Ar, which lies along the border of Moab.'"The Book of the Wars of the Lord is cited in the mediaeval Book of Jasher Chapter 90:48 as being a collaborative record written by Moses, Joshua, and the children of Israel. [wikipedia]
A work mentioned in a single passage of the Old Testament (Num. xxi. 14) in connection with the geographical position of Arnon. The title suggests that the book contained songs celebrating the victories of the Israelites led by Yhwh, and it seems, therefore, to have been similar to the Book of Jasher or possibly even identical with it, though there is no evidence to support the latter hypothesis. [http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=42&letter=W]
WHAT IS THE BOOK OF JASHER?
The Book of Jasher is the normal English name of a work known in the original Hebrew as Sefer haYashar. It is the best-known of several "Lost books of the Old Testament", books referenced in the Hebrew Bible of which no copies are known to exist. The original Hebrew translates as "Book of the Upright".
Question no. 2 is: Why we can't find the "Book of the Wars of the LORD" in the Holy Bible?
ANSWER: Well, I did not write the Bible so how can I answer this one lol :) Uhh, according to Wikipedia it is a "lost book".
Question no. 3 is: What is the Wahed in Supah and the wadies?
ANSWER: I think the "Wahed in Supah and the wadies" is the title of the Book of Wars of the Lord.
NASB version
Numbers 21:14
Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD,
"Waheb in Suphah,
And the wadis of the Arnon.
As you can see above it says that "Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD,
"Waheb in Suphah,"
The title suggests that the book contained songs celebrating the victories of the Israelites led by Yahweh =)
----------------------------------------------------
Ok honestly, i dont know how to answer your questions, Brother. Im an apologist, not a Bible Expert :) Anyway, you should do researches in able to find answers, or you can contact and talk to Theologists. Hope this helps, even a litle :) God bless you!
Tuesday, May 4, 2010
The Holy Spirit -- Who is He?
THIS IS ONLY THE BASIC LESSON ABOUT THE TOPIC "The Holy Spirit -- Who is He?" The 2nd Discussion about it will be post soon.
------------------------------------------------------------
Okay so what is the Holy Spirit? According to us Catholics, it is the 3rd personna on the Holy Trinity, so it is God. For other sects, it is only the Power of God.. or one of the 7 spirits..
"The Holy Spirit -- Who is He?" Let the Bible answer =)
Genesis 1:2 ~ In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
* as we can see, in the beginning of the world, the Spirit of God already existed. The original word used for the word "Spirit of God" is "ruah" which means "Holy Spirit" [source: JEROME BIBLICAL COMMENTARY, pg 11]
IS THE HOLY SPIRIT A GOD?
YES (how?)
* on Genesis 1:1, it says that on the creation of the world, the Holy Spirit already existed. God is the only one who rules forever(from the beginning and no end), and since the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning, it is a God.
Isaias 43:3 ~ For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I give Egypt for your ransom, Cush and Seba in your stead.
Isaias 6:3 ~ And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."
* on the verses above, it says that only God is called "holy". And since the Spirit of God is called "holy" (ruah on gen.1:1), it is indeed a God.
Matthew 12:32 ~ Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 ~ Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Where did the Holy Spirit come from?
John 15:26
Where does the Holy Spirit live?
1 Cor. 3:16 , 1 Cor. 6:19 , 2 Cor. 6:16
Hope This Helps. Dios Bendice!
------------------------------------------------------------
Okay so what is the Holy Spirit? According to us Catholics, it is the 3rd personna on the Holy Trinity, so it is God. For other sects, it is only the Power of God.. or one of the 7 spirits..
"The Holy Spirit -- Who is He?" Let the Bible answer =)
Genesis 1:2 ~ In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
* as we can see, in the beginning of the world, the Spirit of God already existed. The original word used for the word "Spirit of God" is "ruah" which means "Holy Spirit" [source: JEROME BIBLICAL COMMENTARY, pg 11]
IS THE HOLY SPIRIT A GOD?
YES (how?)
* on Genesis 1:1, it says that on the creation of the world, the Holy Spirit already existed. God is the only one who rules forever(from the beginning and no end), and since the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning, it is a God.
Isaias 43:3 ~ For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I give Egypt for your ransom, Cush and Seba in your stead.
Isaias 6:3 ~ And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."
* on the verses above, it says that only God is called "holy". And since the Spirit of God is called "holy" (ruah on gen.1:1), it is indeed a God.
Matthew 12:32 ~ Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 ~ Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Where did the Holy Spirit come from?
John 15:26
Where does the Holy Spirit live?
1 Cor. 3:16 , 1 Cor. 6:19 , 2 Cor. 6:16
Hope This Helps. Dios Bendice!
Monday, May 3, 2010
A Conversation with an INC Member: Holy Trinity
Facebook has been one of the largest social networks spreading on the internet. On Facebook can be found people, people you dont know, pages, groups, and anything that has something to deal with socializing. Since I, an apologist, search for Religious Organizations on the world of Facebook, i found an interesting group which can help me gain more knowledge about studying Catholic Apologetics.
The title explains it all.. Yes, that "interesting group" i was referring to was the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" (Church Of Christ; founded by Manalo; i dont know what he's first name is, and yeah, i dont mind to know it either lol) Some refer it to as "Iglesia Ni Manalo" (Church of Manalo) for some reasons..
On the "Iglesia ni Cristo" Group Page can be found pictures, links, members, infos, and most importantly, discussions. And guess what, on that Group Page the members were not only INC's but also Catholics... Catholics who i knew.. On the Discussion Tab, i saw a lot of topics from the INC members like, "Ang Tunay na Dios ay IISA, at ito ang Ama. (The True God is ONE, and it is the Father)", "si MAMA MARY DIN ba MEDIATOR DIN??! (Mama Mary is also a Mediator?)", "PURGATORYO?!. . (Purgatory?)", and "NASAN ang TRINITY?? (Where is the Trinity)"? .. On the other hand, my Catholic Friends also started discussions there like "NASAA ANG FELIX MANALO SA BIBLIA? (Where in the Bible is Felix Manalo?)", "ANG IGLSIA NA TATAG NI JESUS --NATAYO 33 AD -ANG IGLSIA NA HINDI TATAG NI KRISTO -1914 NATATAG (God created His Church on 33AD and not on 1914 [1914 was the date when "Iglesia Ni Cristo founded by Manalo" Church was created])", and "BIBLICAL BA ANG ARAL NG IGLSIA NI MANALO NA NATALIKOD ANG IGLSIA NA TINATAG NI JESUS? (Are the teachings of the "Church of Manalo" Biblical?)".. There are like 300 Discussions on that Page by Catholics and INC's.. And i said to myself, "Why is it even called a Discussion? Why not a debate?" This was because when I read it one by one, oh gahh! the way they speak to each other was so shocking.. They used words like "tanga", "sira ulo", "oi pagano", "IKAW PURO YABANG -HANGIN -KABAG LANG AT UTOT MO ANG GUMAGANA DITO", "bobo!", etc.... And yes i admit, it was very Immature not only for the INC's, but also for the Catholics, for I, myself, is a Catholic.
All of the topics were very much answered, except for one - The Holy Trinity. It was so interesting, like i said, i was trying to gain more knowledge, so, with respect and good manners, i joined the debate, i mean (which also end up to that), discussion :-) Here's the thread..
(edited and deleted some features)
LEGEND: INC- represents the person I was having a conversation with; C- represents Me :)
C: may i join this conversation?
INC: yes.
C: can i first ask a question? why dont you believe in the Holy Trinity?
INC:
John 20:17 ~ Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'
* its simple. because there is only ONE God, the God of Jacob, Abraham and Jesus.
C: So you dont believe the Jesus is God? Meaning to say that Jehovah, God the Father, is the Only God?
INC: Yes.. not including Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
C: ah i see. is it okay if i explain the Holy Trinity?
INC: as long as you want sister.
C:
thank you brother ^_^
SOURCE: http://www.ctl-apologetics.blogspot.com [my blogsite]
Im a Catholic anyway.. And we believe in the Holy Trinity..
What is the Trinity?
Trinity (Santatlo; Trinitaryo in Tagalog) - this is the word used to explain the great mystery about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. (KnowTheTruth by Fr. Paul Kaiparambadan)
WIKIPEDIA - The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. The doctrine states that God is the Triune God, existing as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, but one being.
in short, its like..
God the Father
God the Son = 1 God
God the Holy Spirit
3 = 1
1 = 1
get it?
Non-believers of the Trinity say that the doctrine of "Trinity" is not true for it is not written in the Bible... (Q: the word "Bible" is not written in the Bible... so why do we still believe on it?)
In the Old Testament, God introduced Himself not as a "person" but "persons". In the Greek Bible, the word "God" is translated NOT to "El" which is used for one person but to "Elohim" which is used for many personna..
this is one of the verses that you use to say that there is only one God and it is the Father:
Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
* as you can see, the verse above tries to imply that the Lord is one... This is also one of the verses that Anti Catholics use to attack the doctrine of the Trinity.
In the Hebrew Bible, the word "ONE" in Deuteronomy 6:4 is translated to "ECHAD" which thought is like a corporation with many people... (or a choir with many singers; a school with many students; A HEAD WITH MANY PERSONS)
your turn :)
INC:
ok ok. . i'll quote a few verse only okay. . because supposedly you gave me one verse which is Deu. 6:4 and the rest you will rely on the Creeds that support the Trinity, and those creeds where only created by Bishops and not by God. In other words, the Holy Trinity is a "man made dogma"... is it okay if we use the basis of the Bible?
C:
The Bishops did not created the belief of the Holy Trinity. Yes we do have creeds and prayers that mention the Holy Trinity like the Nicene's Creed but this doesnt mean that this is man made. The Bible will tell, my brother :) yes lets rely on the Bible
INC:
okay if we are on the Biblical basis, Apostle Paul will contradict your response.
1 Cor. 8:5-6: “For even there are SO-CALLED GODS, whether in heaven or on earth…yet for us, there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER…”
isnt it clear? although daw " there are SO-CALLED GODS". . ."there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER". . we can see here that there is no Trinity.
C:
Ah i see.. Okay i will complete the verse that you used.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 ~ For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
* the word "so-called gods" there is not Jesus and the Holy Spirit. If you will read the full chapter (1 Corinthians 8), the main topic is about idols (diyosdiyosan).. It is imposible that Jesus will be an idol for He is God's son.
Matthew 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit..
* If God the Father is only the God, why did Matthew said this verse? "baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.."
* another one, if there is no trinity, why did on Matthew 28:19 say "name" even though his sentence was plural.. As Catholics believe, there is one God, but with 3 personnas.
INC:
Havent you notice the sentence? its so simple. "baptize them in the name".. not because they 3 are Gods. simple as ABC
You Said "another one, if there is no trinity, why did on Matthew 28:19 say "name" even though his sentence was plural.. As Catholics believe, there is one God, but with 3 personnas."
my reply: like what i said, it is not as a condition as a God, but as a name only..
Acts 1:8 say that the spirit is only the power of God and not God. see also "Efeso 3:16-17" and "Juan 14:26"
C: [i dont know what to answer for honestly, i did not get his point. so, i copy-pasted my blogpost about Jesus is God..]
http://ctl-apologetics.blogspot.com/2010/03/jesus-is-god.html
------------------------------------------------
know what he replied? ;-D
------------------------------------------------
INC: wait sister are you serious about this debate? im really tired of answering this over and over again..
[this has been the end of the discussion]
Once again, Catholicism scored. :) Hope this helps..
NOTE: There are a lot of typing errors on this one. Please consider. The reason why i wrote this is to ANSWER QUESTIONS and nothing ELSE. God bless ~
The title explains it all.. Yes, that "interesting group" i was referring to was the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" (Church Of Christ; founded by Manalo; i dont know what he's first name is, and yeah, i dont mind to know it either lol) Some refer it to as "Iglesia Ni Manalo" (Church of Manalo) for some reasons..
On the "Iglesia ni Cristo" Group Page can be found pictures, links, members, infos, and most importantly, discussions. And guess what, on that Group Page the members were not only INC's but also Catholics... Catholics who i knew.. On the Discussion Tab, i saw a lot of topics from the INC members like, "Ang Tunay na Dios ay IISA, at ito ang Ama. (The True God is ONE, and it is the Father)", "si MAMA MARY DIN ba MEDIATOR DIN??! (Mama Mary is also a Mediator?)", "PURGATORYO?!. . (Purgatory?)", and "NASAN ang TRINITY?? (Where is the Trinity)"? .. On the other hand, my Catholic Friends also started discussions there like "NASAA ANG FELIX MANALO SA BIBLIA? (Where in the Bible is Felix Manalo?)", "ANG IGLSIA NA TATAG NI JESUS --NATAYO 33 AD -ANG IGLSIA NA HINDI TATAG NI KRISTO -1914 NATATAG (God created His Church on 33AD and not on 1914 [1914 was the date when "Iglesia Ni Cristo founded by Manalo" Church was created])", and "BIBLICAL BA ANG ARAL NG IGLSIA NI MANALO NA NATALIKOD ANG IGLSIA NA TINATAG NI JESUS? (Are the teachings of the "Church of Manalo" Biblical?)".. There are like 300 Discussions on that Page by Catholics and INC's.. And i said to myself, "Why is it even called a Discussion? Why not a debate?" This was because when I read it one by one, oh gahh! the way they speak to each other was so shocking.. They used words like "tanga", "sira ulo", "oi pagano", "IKAW PURO YABANG -HANGIN -KABAG LANG AT UTOT MO ANG GUMAGANA DITO", "bobo!", etc.... And yes i admit, it was very Immature not only for the INC's, but also for the Catholics, for I, myself, is a Catholic.
All of the topics were very much answered, except for one - The Holy Trinity. It was so interesting, like i said, i was trying to gain more knowledge, so, with respect and good manners, i joined the debate, i mean (which also end up to that), discussion :-) Here's the thread..
(edited and deleted some features)
LEGEND: INC- represents the person I was having a conversation with; C- represents Me :)
C: may i join this conversation?
INC: yes.
C: can i first ask a question? why dont you believe in the Holy Trinity?
INC:
John 20:17 ~ Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'
* its simple. because there is only ONE God, the God of Jacob, Abraham and Jesus.
C: So you dont believe the Jesus is God? Meaning to say that Jehovah, God the Father, is the Only God?
INC: Yes.. not including Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
C: ah i see. is it okay if i explain the Holy Trinity?
INC: as long as you want sister.
C:
thank you brother ^_^
SOURCE: http://www.ctl-apologetics.blogspot.com [my blogsite]
Im a Catholic anyway.. And we believe in the Holy Trinity..
What is the Trinity?
Trinity (Santatlo; Trinitaryo in Tagalog) - this is the word used to explain the great mystery about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. (KnowTheTruth by Fr. Paul Kaiparambadan)
WIKIPEDIA - The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. The doctrine states that God is the Triune God, existing as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, but one being.
in short, its like..
God the Father
God the Son = 1 God
God the Holy Spirit
3 = 1
1 = 1
get it?
Non-believers of the Trinity say that the doctrine of "Trinity" is not true for it is not written in the Bible... (Q: the word "Bible" is not written in the Bible... so why do we still believe on it?)
In the Old Testament, God introduced Himself not as a "person" but "persons". In the Greek Bible, the word "God" is translated NOT to "El" which is used for one person but to "Elohim" which is used for many personna..
this is one of the verses that you use to say that there is only one God and it is the Father:
Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
* as you can see, the verse above tries to imply that the Lord is one... This is also one of the verses that Anti Catholics use to attack the doctrine of the Trinity.
In the Hebrew Bible, the word "ONE" in Deuteronomy 6:4 is translated to "ECHAD" which thought is like a corporation with many people... (or a choir with many singers; a school with many students; A HEAD WITH MANY PERSONS)
your turn :)
INC:
ok ok. . i'll quote a few verse only okay. . because supposedly you gave me one verse which is Deu. 6:4 and the rest you will rely on the Creeds that support the Trinity, and those creeds where only created by Bishops and not by God. In other words, the Holy Trinity is a "man made dogma"... is it okay if we use the basis of the Bible?
C:
The Bishops did not created the belief of the Holy Trinity. Yes we do have creeds and prayers that mention the Holy Trinity like the Nicene's Creed but this doesnt mean that this is man made. The Bible will tell, my brother :) yes lets rely on the Bible
INC:
okay if we are on the Biblical basis, Apostle Paul will contradict your response.
1 Cor. 8:5-6: “For even there are SO-CALLED GODS, whether in heaven or on earth…yet for us, there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER…”
isnt it clear? although daw " there are SO-CALLED GODS". . ."there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER". . we can see here that there is no Trinity.
C:
Ah i see.. Okay i will complete the verse that you used.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 ~ For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
* the word "so-called gods" there is not Jesus and the Holy Spirit. If you will read the full chapter (1 Corinthians 8), the main topic is about idols (diyosdiyosan).. It is imposible that Jesus will be an idol for He is God's son.
Matthew 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit..
* If God the Father is only the God, why did Matthew said this verse? "baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.."
* another one, if there is no trinity, why did on Matthew 28:19 say "name" even though his sentence was plural.. As Catholics believe, there is one God, but with 3 personnas.
INC:
Havent you notice the sentence? its so simple. "baptize them in the name".. not because they 3 are Gods. simple as ABC
You Said "another one, if there is no trinity, why did on Matthew 28:19 say "name" even though his sentence was plural.. As Catholics believe, there is one God, but with 3 personnas."
my reply: like what i said, it is not as a condition as a God, but as a name only..
Acts 1:8 say that the spirit is only the power of God and not God. see also "Efeso 3:16-17" and "Juan 14:26"
C: [i dont know what to answer for honestly, i did not get his point. so, i copy-pasted my blogpost about Jesus is God..]
http://ctl-apologetics.blogspot.com/2010/03/jesus-is-god.html
------------------------------------------------
know what he replied? ;-D
------------------------------------------------
INC: wait sister are you serious about this debate? im really tired of answering this over and over again..
[this has been the end of the discussion]
Once again, Catholicism scored. :) Hope this helps..
NOTE: There are a lot of typing errors on this one. Please consider. The reason why i wrote this is to ANSWER QUESTIONS and nothing ELSE. God bless ~
Tuesday, April 27, 2010
Catholicism VS. Individual Christianism
APRIL 2010 ^_^
What is Individual Christianism? According to Karl Keating's Book, "Catholicism and Fundamentalism" , an Individual Christianity believer is one who does not believe on the power of religions, but believes that there is a Supreme Being. He believes that Jesus died on the cross, and brought forth our Salvation. I once had a conversation with an Individual Christian. I did not expected that I'll have a chance to speak with a "No Religion" believer, it was just because a friend of mine asked for my help, because He did not know what to reply to this Individual Christian.
"FUCK THE CHURCH. FUCK THE CHURCH." - a comment by (lets hide him in the name Evon) Evon as my friend posted something about the Catholic Church.
I had to approach Him, for He did not only disrespected my friend's post, but also what my friend believed in... what i believed in, too..
[CONVERSATION]
Here's my friend's post (Facebook)
"We have to continue our spiritual battle against those who wants total annihilation of the Church; so just as this military command, I say: "Forward, MARCH!"
Evon's comments
1) "FUCK THE CHURCH. FUCK THE CHURCH."
2) the church is just a tool to fool the masses, to give them a false sense of hope and is just used to keep people's values in retrospect. fuck the church. What only matters is our covenant with God. Our belief in Him, our worship and praise for him. We do not need the church for that. If you do your research, everything they do in the so-called 'christian mass' is linked to pagan ceremonies. So I say fuck the church. And fuck the leaders of the church who profits from our donations.
My friend's reply:
That's nonsense! Our faith in Him cannot stand alone!
Just so you know, what you have called a false sense of hope is wrong. Why?
1. Faith is a personal act...but is not an isolated act (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church). It does not mean that you believe in God, it would be your passport to His Kingdom. It does not stand alone because you cannot be saved, or at least commended, by a mere process of thought. Thus it needs action--a physical manifestation of this belief; in this case, good works. ...
2. On what you said (...who profits from our donations), they profit not because they would keep it in their pockets. Almost all religious leaders, from the Pontiff to the parish priest, are happy with donations, not because they would spend it in luxury--which is contradictory to their vow of poverty--but because they will go to those who need it the most: i.e. parochial clerics financially helping the seminarians they sponsor.
3. In a personal light, is asking the help of a person enough to get yourself out of a sticky situation? I don't think so. You would always do your best, with his/her assistance, to resolve it. That's why the Church exists: it helps and serves those who want to help themselves out of the sinful lives they live, so that through their faith AND COMPLIMENTARY ACTIONS, they would renew their covenant with God.
Evon's reply:
You don't understand.
1. If you say that belief in God alone is not enough to be saved, that is just plain wrong. God himself told us that in order to be saved, we must believe in His son, Jesus Christ and accept Him as our savior. God did not tell us to believe in the church. He did not mention anything about the church and believing in it. Yes, you may say that Jesus Christ is the one who told His disciple to build a church as our covenant to Him, to spread the faith or whatsoever. But do you think we need a church? All this time, in the name of christianity, there has been a lot of inquisitions and killings by the church just for the name of God. And yet you say that our good works will be justified by believing and being a part of the church itself.
2. From my belief and from what I've seen personally and what I've known. Look at all the religious leaders, they're rich and they have a very lavish lifestyle. They profit from our donations, every single cent of it. Do you even think that they skip a meal with all the money they have? Do you even think that when they go to some places, they won't choose to be in a grande or a luxurious place with a first class treatment or not a first class treatment but I know you get what I mean. They spend on so many unnessecary things with the mony they get from us. Seminarians and sponsors? that makes me laugh because with how much they get form donations, why can't they even help the poor, the needy, to feed them and clothe them, and house them. Every single time they've got enough money to do so....
3. I've got nothing against with what you said on this one. Every one has his or her own way to get through what they need to get through. That's all. But by what you said about the church and what it exists for. I think it's all just a sham, you're describing it just like a support group. Like AA.
------------------------------------
At this time, my friend talked to me and asked for my help. So I commented on my friend's post too..
I said:
Hello, i dont mind to disturb your conversation, but it seems like your topic is very interesting.
Brother, i respect what you believe. Actually i have alot of friends like you.. The term used to describe what you believe is "Individual Christianity" - to ONLY believe that there is a Supreme Being, but no need to have religions (Karl Keating)
Before I continue,
Do you believe in the Bible?
i'll wait for your response. God bless!
Evon's Reply:
I don't mind sister Celine. Yes, Individual Christianity. But I have a very complex belief. Sometimes I believe, sometimes I don't, and sometimes I am against the belief.
I do believe in the bible, but the bible contradicts itself..
God bless you too Celine.
-------------------------------------
Since the discussion was very public, and everybody could see it, I had to "Add Him Up" as my friend so we can have a conversation privately.
[Legend: the capital letter "I" corresponds to Me :) and the capital letter "E" corresponds to Evon]
I: i saw your comment on my friend's post. do you mind if i ask questions?
E: Hi Celine. Yes its okay.
I: first i would like to know if youre a former catholic or any other religious groups
E: I am baptized as a christian but a few years ago i renounced my faith.
I: Catholic?
E: yes catholic.
I: okay. and you're family?
E: yes, they are catholic.
I: when did you became an Individual Christian? were there someone who influenced you, or preached you, or taught you to become one?
E: Im not that pure as an individual christian.
As early as grade 6, I became an atheist. And in the first two years of my high school life. I got interested on Satanism. No one influenced me, its simply because of my curiousity.
I: ah i see. Do you believe in God, right now?
E: Sometimes, especially when I'm down. But sometimes I think 'about the facts'. And my faith seems to fade..
But I do believe in a supreme being. Not as an entity itself, or a persona. But a force to make people do good and be good. The goodness in life and in everything in general.
I: okay.. so what made you say "fuck the church"? and what church are you talking about? (as if i dont know. lol)
E: The catholic church. In the church, there's a lot of hypocrasy. As in full of hypocrasy at immorality.
I: what do you mean hypocrasy? and how can you say that? do you have proof or an experience for you to say that?
E: Yes, look at the pedophile priests. Look at all the churches who killed lots of people in the name of God in the inquisitions. They are so judgemental yet they are the one who are devouted to God so much... Churches who shove their beliefs in peoples throat, who preach. Who dare say bad things to nonbelievers, who do bad things to the nonbelievers, but when people attack them even with heathens, they then say its wrong to attack them back. Although they did the bad thing in the first place. They're using the church as a scapegoat. And that's why i think they are hypocrites. And in my belief. The church isn't perfect, I know you will agree with me. God and Jesus Christ is perfect, so what we should do is set our eyes and our hearts to them.
A lot of teachings of the church is, i think, absurd. A whole lot of absurdity, thats why I don't follow the church.
I: about your response, i cant agree with you more. yes some catholic priests are pedophiles brother.. but i think thats not a reason to hate the catholic church..i'll give you an example. im a student. im a student that is very idle. i act bad on school, and im not interested in listening to my teachers or instructors. does this mean that the blame is to be put on the School? No, right?
Ephesians 2:7-9 :
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. [For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.] (focus on the [])
* In here says that in faith we will be saved.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die. [The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.] (focus on the [])
* it is very clear on this verse that the only the sinner gets punish. the son or family or relative will not share on the sinner's punishment.
about the teaching of the Church that you think is absurd, would you kindly list it down for me? lets discuss it one by one brother.
E: About your example, the blame is to be put on the student. And i agree.
about the verse you've given,
Ephesians 2:7-9 :
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. [For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.]
i very much agree on you sister. our faith in Jesus is the only way we will be saved, not on the church. Yes, we do worship God inside the church, but since you said faith is the only way to be saved, why do we need a church? is it hard to worship with no church?
-------------------------------------------------------
On the second verse, once again, i agree.
-------------------------------------------------------
First of all:
Christians claim to worship God as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being, they make him out to be incompetent bumbler. Or worse. Simple forgiveness is beyond his capacities. God must ["sacrifice himself to himself to change a rule he made himself!"]
This is not only an absurdity, it is an essential absurdity. It is present in almost all forms of Christianity, and one can scarcely remove it and remain a Christian in anything but name. By definition, all Christians worship Christ - in some form - and most worship him as a saviour.
But what, exactly, is he saving us from? Though it varies from church to church, no matter what they call it, it's God himself. A hell created by God, a world fallen as a result of God's negligence, a separation from God imposed... by God.
BACK TO THE LIST OF WHY I THINK IT'S ABSURD:
1. There are thousands of different religions in the world, and in the vast majority of cases people follow the dominant faith of the culture they were born into. Is it not arrogant and self-centred to think that your faith is the "true" one and all the others are false?
2. What is the point of prayer? Surely God knows what you are going to pray for beforehand - and has already decided on his course of action. Is it not absurd to think that you can persuade God to change his mind?
3. Why does God insist that you worship him? Is he insecure - or an egomaniac?
4. Thomas Paine: "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon that the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel."
Please explain why the bible is referred to as the "good book".
Thomas Paine was referring to the old testament in the above quote. Please explain why the god of the old testament (an angry, vengeful god, worthy of scorn not worship) - is so different from the god talked about in the new testament.
and the last one:
Jesus apparently died for us, facing god's wrath in our place. Why did he have to do this? Why couldn't god forgive us anyway? Why does god - a perfect being - have negative, human-based emotions like anger and wrath? Is not the whole concept absurd?
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have nothing against God. I don't hate God and I don't hate the belief. In fact, sometimes I believe. This is what I just come up with when I think about the absurdities.
Hope to hear more from you kapatid.
:) have a good day.
I: okay since you agree on my example and on the verses i have given you, i guess now its not a reason for you to hate the Catholic Church and same with the Catholic Priests.
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* THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID BROTHER: i very much agree on you sister. our faith in Jesus is the only way we will be saved, not on the church. Yes, we do worship God inside the church, but since you said faith is the only way to be saved, why do we need a church? is it hard to worship with no church?
and my response: the question is, is it faith alone that we need in able to be saved?
Matthew 7:19-27 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. ["Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.' "Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock.] The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock. [And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined."] (focus on the [])
as you can see brother,not all who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. God also said, "Everyone who listens to these words of mine and ACTS ON THEM will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse"
God also stated on that verse, "And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined." in other words, your faith is useless if you wont ACT on them.. "its completely ruined"..
THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID BROTHER: our faith in Jesus is the only way we will be saved, not on the church. Yes, we do worship God inside the church, but since you said faith is the only way to be saved, why do we need a church? is it hard to worship with no church?
*
so why do we worship on a Church? with the help of the Bible, we will see the answer.
1 Timothy 3:15 (New American Standard Bible)
but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will [know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.] (focus sa mga nakabracket)
so God created the Church as His house, and so it'll be pillar and support of truth.. so if there were no church, where could we find truth? how? on your faith? but God said not all who says Lord Lord can enter the kingdom of heaven.
THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID: Christians claim to worship God as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being, they make him out to be incompetent bumbler. Or worse. Simple forgiveness is beyond his capacities. God must ["sacrifice himself to himself to change a rule he made himself!"]
* brother, God did not sacrifice Himself. He sacrificed His only son Jesus for us to be saved and NOT to change a rule He made Himself. does this mean you are questioning God?
this is what you said: This is not only an absurdity, it is an essential absurdity. It is present in almost all forms of Christianity, and one can scarcely remove it and remain a Christian in anything but name. By definition, all Christians worship Christ - in some form - and most worship him as a saviour.
* how can you say that this is absurdity? we worship God for it is our way to say "thank you for dying and suffering for us to be saved"... you worship God right? in a way of faith right? are you calling yourself an absurd believer?
this is what you said: But what, exactly, is he saving us from? Though it varies from church to church, no matter what they call it, it's God himself. A hell created by God, a world fallen as a result of God's negligence, a separation from God imposed... by God
* Meaning to say, God is saving his self from his self? No brother. In the book of Genesis, there were EVIL in the beginning. and this is what God is saving us from. The first sin was made by Eve and Adam when they disobyed God, and this is because of the snake w/c is Satan. So God is saving us from the Devil brother.. This is why God created hell, because nowadays, many are following Satan.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but [sent them to hell], putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
God's negligence? No. you cannot blame that to God. the blame is to be put on the people who did not believe on Him. Negligence?? Dont you appreciate what God did? sacrificing his only Son to people who does not deserve to be saved?
**okay now lets go to the reasons why you think the teachings of the church is absurd**
1) There are thousands of different religions in the world, and in the vast majority of cases people follow the dominant faith of the culture they were born into. Is it not arrogant and self-centred to think that your faith is the "true" one and all the others are false?
* yes there are thousands of religions in the world, but the first ever CHRISTIAN RELIGION is the Catholic Church brother.. they were the first to preach christianity into the world. And I think it is not arrogant and selfcentered to say that "my church is true and the others are not" specially when a catholic is the one saying that. remember, they were the first to preach christianity into the world. and after that many false religions appeared.
Matthew 7:15
[ A Tree and Its Fruit ] "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matthew 24:11
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
1 John 4:1
[ Test the Spirits ] Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. What is the point of prayer? Surely God knows what you are going to pray for beforehand - and has already decided on his course of action. Is it not absurd to think that you can persuade God to change his mind?
* brother, prayer is not only for asking for something.
prayer is a form of ACTS. as in (A)doration (C)onfession (T)hanksgiving and (S)upplication..
the people in the bible prays:
1 Kings 8:28
Yet give attention to your servant's prayer and his plea for mercy, O LORD my God. Hear the cry and the prayer that your servant is praying in your presence this day.
how can you say that God knows what you are suffering from? yes, God knows what happened, is happening, and will happen to you, for the eyes of the Lord is in every place (proverbs 3:15)but God will not do anything brother for God said in the book of Psalms (i forgot the verse) that you are the one who makes your ACT and I only guide it.. so how can He decide and guide you if you do not pray?
2 Chronicles 30:27
The priests and the Levites stood to bless the people, and [God heard them, for their prayer reached heaven,] his holy dwelling place.
3. Why does God insist that you worship him? Is he insecure - or an egomaniac
* why are you questioning God like this brother? Dont you believe in him? Brother, to worship him is the simplest way to thank Him for saving us, you brother, can you sacrifice someone you love for the people who does not deserve to be saved? no right? so you cannot ask God like that..
4. Thomas Paine: "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon that the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel."
Please explain why the bible is referred to as the "good book".
* how can you say that God is really the demon if in the beginning of the world there is Evil? the devil that tempted Eve and Adam to sin.. The Bible is reffered as the good book because these are the Words of God..
this is what you said: Thomas Paine was referring to the old testament in the above quote. Please explain why the god of the old testament (an angry, vengeful god, worthy of scorn not worship) - is so different from the god talked about in the new testament
** where? where in the Bible?
this is what you sai: Jesus apparently died for us, facing god's wrath in our place. Why did he have to do this? Why couldn't god forgive us anyway? Why does god - a perfect being - have negative, human-based emotions like anger and wrath? Is not the whole concept absurd?
* God forgave us brother. He did this in a way of sacrificing His son. Im not sure about this one. Try researching. ^_^
this is what you said: This is what I just come up with when I think about the absurdities.
*now think about the answers i gave you.. :) it can help you alot.
God bless.
------------------------------------------------------------
This has been the end of our conversation. I havent heard about him anymore. For now im still waiting for his reply. Im posting this TO ANSWER questions and not for any other reasons. There are typing errors on this blogpost. My apologies. Hope this helps a lot. God bless.
What is Individual Christianism? According to Karl Keating's Book, "Catholicism and Fundamentalism" , an Individual Christianity believer is one who does not believe on the power of religions, but believes that there is a Supreme Being. He believes that Jesus died on the cross, and brought forth our Salvation. I once had a conversation with an Individual Christian. I did not expected that I'll have a chance to speak with a "No Religion" believer, it was just because a friend of mine asked for my help, because He did not know what to reply to this Individual Christian.
"FUCK THE CHURCH. FUCK THE CHURCH." - a comment by (lets hide him in the name Evon) Evon as my friend posted something about the Catholic Church.
I had to approach Him, for He did not only disrespected my friend's post, but also what my friend believed in... what i believed in, too..
[CONVERSATION]
Here's my friend's post (Facebook)
"We have to continue our spiritual battle against those who wants total annihilation of the Church; so just as this military command, I say: "Forward, MARCH!"
Evon's comments
1) "FUCK THE CHURCH. FUCK THE CHURCH."
2) the church is just a tool to fool the masses, to give them a false sense of hope and is just used to keep people's values in retrospect. fuck the church. What only matters is our covenant with God. Our belief in Him, our worship and praise for him. We do not need the church for that. If you do your research, everything they do in the so-called 'christian mass' is linked to pagan ceremonies. So I say fuck the church. And fuck the leaders of the church who profits from our donations.
My friend's reply:
That's nonsense! Our faith in Him cannot stand alone!
Just so you know, what you have called a false sense of hope is wrong. Why?
1. Faith is a personal act...but is not an isolated act (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church). It does not mean that you believe in God, it would be your passport to His Kingdom. It does not stand alone because you cannot be saved, or at least commended, by a mere process of thought. Thus it needs action--a physical manifestation of this belief; in this case, good works. ...
2. On what you said (...who profits from our donations), they profit not because they would keep it in their pockets. Almost all religious leaders, from the Pontiff to the parish priest, are happy with donations, not because they would spend it in luxury--which is contradictory to their vow of poverty--but because they will go to those who need it the most: i.e. parochial clerics financially helping the seminarians they sponsor.
3. In a personal light, is asking the help of a person enough to get yourself out of a sticky situation? I don't think so. You would always do your best, with his/her assistance, to resolve it. That's why the Church exists: it helps and serves those who want to help themselves out of the sinful lives they live, so that through their faith AND COMPLIMENTARY ACTIONS, they would renew their covenant with God.
Evon's reply:
You don't understand.
1. If you say that belief in God alone is not enough to be saved, that is just plain wrong. God himself told us that in order to be saved, we must believe in His son, Jesus Christ and accept Him as our savior. God did not tell us to believe in the church. He did not mention anything about the church and believing in it. Yes, you may say that Jesus Christ is the one who told His disciple to build a church as our covenant to Him, to spread the faith or whatsoever. But do you think we need a church? All this time, in the name of christianity, there has been a lot of inquisitions and killings by the church just for the name of God. And yet you say that our good works will be justified by believing and being a part of the church itself.
2. From my belief and from what I've seen personally and what I've known. Look at all the religious leaders, they're rich and they have a very lavish lifestyle. They profit from our donations, every single cent of it. Do you even think that they skip a meal with all the money they have? Do you even think that when they go to some places, they won't choose to be in a grande or a luxurious place with a first class treatment or not a first class treatment but I know you get what I mean. They spend on so many unnessecary things with the mony they get from us. Seminarians and sponsors? that makes me laugh because with how much they get form donations, why can't they even help the poor, the needy, to feed them and clothe them, and house them. Every single time they've got enough money to do so....
3. I've got nothing against with what you said on this one. Every one has his or her own way to get through what they need to get through. That's all. But by what you said about the church and what it exists for. I think it's all just a sham, you're describing it just like a support group. Like AA.
------------------------------------
At this time, my friend talked to me and asked for my help. So I commented on my friend's post too..
I said:
Hello, i dont mind to disturb your conversation, but it seems like your topic is very interesting.
Brother, i respect what you believe. Actually i have alot of friends like you.. The term used to describe what you believe is "Individual Christianity" - to ONLY believe that there is a Supreme Being, but no need to have religions (Karl Keating)
Before I continue,
Do you believe in the Bible?
i'll wait for your response. God bless!
Evon's Reply:
I don't mind sister Celine. Yes, Individual Christianity. But I have a very complex belief. Sometimes I believe, sometimes I don't, and sometimes I am against the belief.
I do believe in the bible, but the bible contradicts itself..
God bless you too Celine.
-------------------------------------
Since the discussion was very public, and everybody could see it, I had to "Add Him Up" as my friend so we can have a conversation privately.
[Legend: the capital letter "I" corresponds to Me :) and the capital letter "E" corresponds to Evon]
I: i saw your comment on my friend's post. do you mind if i ask questions?
E: Hi Celine. Yes its okay.
I: first i would like to know if youre a former catholic or any other religious groups
E: I am baptized as a christian but a few years ago i renounced my faith.
I: Catholic?
E: yes catholic.
I: okay. and you're family?
E: yes, they are catholic.
I: when did you became an Individual Christian? were there someone who influenced you, or preached you, or taught you to become one?
E: Im not that pure as an individual christian.
As early as grade 6, I became an atheist. And in the first two years of my high school life. I got interested on Satanism. No one influenced me, its simply because of my curiousity.
I: ah i see. Do you believe in God, right now?
E: Sometimes, especially when I'm down. But sometimes I think 'about the facts'. And my faith seems to fade..
But I do believe in a supreme being. Not as an entity itself, or a persona. But a force to make people do good and be good. The goodness in life and in everything in general.
I: okay.. so what made you say "fuck the church"? and what church are you talking about? (as if i dont know. lol)
E: The catholic church. In the church, there's a lot of hypocrasy. As in full of hypocrasy at immorality.
I: what do you mean hypocrasy? and how can you say that? do you have proof or an experience for you to say that?
E: Yes, look at the pedophile priests. Look at all the churches who killed lots of people in the name of God in the inquisitions. They are so judgemental yet they are the one who are devouted to God so much... Churches who shove their beliefs in peoples throat, who preach. Who dare say bad things to nonbelievers, who do bad things to the nonbelievers, but when people attack them even with heathens, they then say its wrong to attack them back. Although they did the bad thing in the first place. They're using the church as a scapegoat. And that's why i think they are hypocrites. And in my belief. The church isn't perfect, I know you will agree with me. God and Jesus Christ is perfect, so what we should do is set our eyes and our hearts to them.
A lot of teachings of the church is, i think, absurd. A whole lot of absurdity, thats why I don't follow the church.
I: about your response, i cant agree with you more. yes some catholic priests are pedophiles brother.. but i think thats not a reason to hate the catholic church..i'll give you an example. im a student. im a student that is very idle. i act bad on school, and im not interested in listening to my teachers or instructors. does this mean that the blame is to be put on the School? No, right?
Ephesians 2:7-9 :
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. [For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.] (focus on the [])
* In here says that in faith we will be saved.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die. [The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.] (focus on the [])
* it is very clear on this verse that the only the sinner gets punish. the son or family or relative will not share on the sinner's punishment.
about the teaching of the Church that you think is absurd, would you kindly list it down for me? lets discuss it one by one brother.
E: About your example, the blame is to be put on the student. And i agree.
about the verse you've given,
Ephesians 2:7-9 :
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. [For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.]
i very much agree on you sister. our faith in Jesus is the only way we will be saved, not on the church. Yes, we do worship God inside the church, but since you said faith is the only way to be saved, why do we need a church? is it hard to worship with no church?
-------------------------------------------------------
On the second verse, once again, i agree.
-------------------------------------------------------
First of all:
Christians claim to worship God as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being, they make him out to be incompetent bumbler. Or worse. Simple forgiveness is beyond his capacities. God must ["sacrifice himself to himself to change a rule he made himself!"]
This is not only an absurdity, it is an essential absurdity. It is present in almost all forms of Christianity, and one can scarcely remove it and remain a Christian in anything but name. By definition, all Christians worship Christ - in some form - and most worship him as a saviour.
But what, exactly, is he saving us from? Though it varies from church to church, no matter what they call it, it's God himself. A hell created by God, a world fallen as a result of God's negligence, a separation from God imposed... by God.
BACK TO THE LIST OF WHY I THINK IT'S ABSURD:
1. There are thousands of different religions in the world, and in the vast majority of cases people follow the dominant faith of the culture they were born into. Is it not arrogant and self-centred to think that your faith is the "true" one and all the others are false?
2. What is the point of prayer? Surely God knows what you are going to pray for beforehand - and has already decided on his course of action. Is it not absurd to think that you can persuade God to change his mind?
3. Why does God insist that you worship him? Is he insecure - or an egomaniac?
4. Thomas Paine: "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon that the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel."
Please explain why the bible is referred to as the "good book".
Thomas Paine was referring to the old testament in the above quote. Please explain why the god of the old testament (an angry, vengeful god, worthy of scorn not worship) - is so different from the god talked about in the new testament.
and the last one:
Jesus apparently died for us, facing god's wrath in our place. Why did he have to do this? Why couldn't god forgive us anyway? Why does god - a perfect being - have negative, human-based emotions like anger and wrath? Is not the whole concept absurd?
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have nothing against God. I don't hate God and I don't hate the belief. In fact, sometimes I believe. This is what I just come up with when I think about the absurdities.
Hope to hear more from you kapatid.
:) have a good day.
I: okay since you agree on my example and on the verses i have given you, i guess now its not a reason for you to hate the Catholic Church and same with the Catholic Priests.
------------------------------------------------------------------
* THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID BROTHER: i very much agree on you sister. our faith in Jesus is the only way we will be saved, not on the church. Yes, we do worship God inside the church, but since you said faith is the only way to be saved, why do we need a church? is it hard to worship with no church?
and my response: the question is, is it faith alone that we need in able to be saved?
Matthew 7:19-27 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. ["Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.' "Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock.] The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock. [And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined."] (focus on the [])
as you can see brother,not all who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. God also said, "Everyone who listens to these words of mine and ACTS ON THEM will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse"
God also stated on that verse, "And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined." in other words, your faith is useless if you wont ACT on them.. "its completely ruined"..
THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID BROTHER: our faith in Jesus is the only way we will be saved, not on the church. Yes, we do worship God inside the church, but since you said faith is the only way to be saved, why do we need a church? is it hard to worship with no church?
*
so why do we worship on a Church? with the help of the Bible, we will see the answer.
1 Timothy 3:15 (New American Standard Bible)
but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will [know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.] (focus sa mga nakabracket)
so God created the Church as His house, and so it'll be pillar and support of truth.. so if there were no church, where could we find truth? how? on your faith? but God said not all who says Lord Lord can enter the kingdom of heaven.
THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID: Christians claim to worship God as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being, they make him out to be incompetent bumbler. Or worse. Simple forgiveness is beyond his capacities. God must ["sacrifice himself to himself to change a rule he made himself!"]
* brother, God did not sacrifice Himself. He sacrificed His only son Jesus for us to be saved and NOT to change a rule He made Himself. does this mean you are questioning God?
this is what you said: This is not only an absurdity, it is an essential absurdity. It is present in almost all forms of Christianity, and one can scarcely remove it and remain a Christian in anything but name. By definition, all Christians worship Christ - in some form - and most worship him as a saviour.
* how can you say that this is absurdity? we worship God for it is our way to say "thank you for dying and suffering for us to be saved"... you worship God right? in a way of faith right? are you calling yourself an absurd believer?
this is what you said: But what, exactly, is he saving us from? Though it varies from church to church, no matter what they call it, it's God himself. A hell created by God, a world fallen as a result of God's negligence, a separation from God imposed... by God
* Meaning to say, God is saving his self from his self? No brother. In the book of Genesis, there were EVIL in the beginning. and this is what God is saving us from. The first sin was made by Eve and Adam when they disobyed God, and this is because of the snake w/c is Satan. So God is saving us from the Devil brother.. This is why God created hell, because nowadays, many are following Satan.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but [sent them to hell], putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
God's negligence? No. you cannot blame that to God. the blame is to be put on the people who did not believe on Him. Negligence?? Dont you appreciate what God did? sacrificing his only Son to people who does not deserve to be saved?
**okay now lets go to the reasons why you think the teachings of the church is absurd**
1) There are thousands of different religions in the world, and in the vast majority of cases people follow the dominant faith of the culture they were born into. Is it not arrogant and self-centred to think that your faith is the "true" one and all the others are false?
* yes there are thousands of religions in the world, but the first ever CHRISTIAN RELIGION is the Catholic Church brother.. they were the first to preach christianity into the world. And I think it is not arrogant and selfcentered to say that "my church is true and the others are not" specially when a catholic is the one saying that. remember, they were the first to preach christianity into the world. and after that many false religions appeared.
Matthew 7:15
[ A Tree and Its Fruit ] "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matthew 24:11
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
1 John 4:1
[ Test the Spirits ] Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. What is the point of prayer? Surely God knows what you are going to pray for beforehand - and has already decided on his course of action. Is it not absurd to think that you can persuade God to change his mind?
* brother, prayer is not only for asking for something.
prayer is a form of ACTS. as in (A)doration (C)onfession (T)hanksgiving and (S)upplication..
the people in the bible prays:
1 Kings 8:28
Yet give attention to your servant's prayer and his plea for mercy, O LORD my God. Hear the cry and the prayer that your servant is praying in your presence this day.
how can you say that God knows what you are suffering from? yes, God knows what happened, is happening, and will happen to you, for the eyes of the Lord is in every place (proverbs 3:15)but God will not do anything brother for God said in the book of Psalms (i forgot the verse) that you are the one who makes your ACT and I only guide it.. so how can He decide and guide you if you do not pray?
2 Chronicles 30:27
The priests and the Levites stood to bless the people, and [God heard them, for their prayer reached heaven,] his holy dwelling place.
3. Why does God insist that you worship him? Is he insecure - or an egomaniac
* why are you questioning God like this brother? Dont you believe in him? Brother, to worship him is the simplest way to thank Him for saving us, you brother, can you sacrifice someone you love for the people who does not deserve to be saved? no right? so you cannot ask God like that..
4. Thomas Paine: "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon that the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel."
Please explain why the bible is referred to as the "good book".
* how can you say that God is really the demon if in the beginning of the world there is Evil? the devil that tempted Eve and Adam to sin.. The Bible is reffered as the good book because these are the Words of God..
this is what you said: Thomas Paine was referring to the old testament in the above quote. Please explain why the god of the old testament (an angry, vengeful god, worthy of scorn not worship) - is so different from the god talked about in the new testament
** where? where in the Bible?
this is what you sai: Jesus apparently died for us, facing god's wrath in our place. Why did he have to do this? Why couldn't god forgive us anyway? Why does god - a perfect being - have negative, human-based emotions like anger and wrath? Is not the whole concept absurd?
* God forgave us brother. He did this in a way of sacrificing His son. Im not sure about this one. Try researching. ^_^
this is what you said: This is what I just come up with when I think about the absurdities.
*now think about the answers i gave you.. :) it can help you alot.
God bless.
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This has been the end of our conversation. I havent heard about him anymore. For now im still waiting for his reply. Im posting this TO ANSWER questions and not for any other reasons. There are typing errors on this blogpost. My apologies. Hope this helps a lot. God bless.
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